I don't need to tell you to not do it because you already know that. However, I do need you to know that I laughed so hard over "irresistible’ men’s fragrance from Bath and Body Works."
Shortly after our divorce, he invited me to dinner. He was being very cordial and I hoped it meant that he was ready to be civil since the divorce was final. I thought we'd have a conversation about co-parenting respectfully. As soon as I arrived at the restaurant, I smelled the cologne and saw that he was wearing his date night shirt and my heart sank. It became clear that he thought I might want to get back together. I politely told him I was very happy being single and I hoped we could learn to work together for the sake of the kids. He said he'd lost his appetite, and left pretty quickly after that. So I guess technically, I've been down this road before...
Gah! I am so, so glad you said no. In fact, I kept repeating “say no” over and over while reading this.
For me it wasn’t a spouse, but a parent who was much like your ex. No contact was what I needed to begin healing as well. I caved when they reached out asking to make amends with me after news that their own parent was dying - I should have known when they expressed they did not wish for me to “be glad that they were dying like they felt about their own parent.”
Yeah.
You do have your sparkle back and I love that for you! May you continue to heal and sparkle.
That's so hard. I'm sorry you went through that. I decided to go no contact with another family member who was physically abusive when I was growing up and I can't believe how controversial that decision has been in my family - even among people who SAW me getting hurt over and over again. I read that survivors of abusive relationships typically lose tolerance for all relationships that have been toxic or abusive, and that really resonated with me. Once I got away from my ex, I discovered I couldn't pretend to be okay with anyone who was mistreating or manipulating me. It's actually very freeing.
i liked how you explained the pattern without relying on assumptions or buzzwords and the line about your daughter saying your sparkle is back sets up why the coffee request makes sense from his side... he wants access now that you're doing well. Looking at what he gains versus what it could cost you cuts through a lot of the confusion. Ending with a simple “hell no” worked because by that point the answer was obvious.
Narcissists feed off of drawing you in. Keep boundaries strong. Praying also for your kids. Having to do this myself with a family member. It is so strange to try to comprehend someone who operates this way. Stay safe.
'Strange' is the right word for it. Just based on my experience and that of other women I know, I'd advise any woman in a similar situation to do everything they can to relentlessly limit or prevent any interaction whatsoever with a narcissistic and/or abusive ex. I would have benefitted if I had figured this out much sooner. They cannot be rehabilitated and there is no 'working together' without the woman suffering in the process. I look back at texts now and see that every 'nice' interaction was quickly followed by a verbal gut punch. It's not worth it.
I also 1) said Oh heck No! several times and 2) laughed about the “men’s fragrance from Bath and Body works.” You are a very intelligent, strong woman living a great life- no reason to give away your hard-earned joy.
Having been also married to an abuser, I can attest to the fact that the patterns you talk about are classic. I’ve been a psychotherapist for 33+ years, and these behaviors are so terrible to be on the receiving end of (even knowing all I know). The abuser continues to interrupt the life of his victim in any way he is able. (I am not intending to project any gender bias here, simply stating that the majority of abusers are men)
I’d like to add some more idea to the many good thoughts you have spoken about here. I recommend documenting any and all contact attempts he makes toward you. (Especially ones thru the kids or friends) Empower your kids to let Dad know that they don’t want to be his “messenger” and that they’d rather just be with him. If he escalates, you have documentation to take back to court and refuse visitations with him. You never have to speak ill of him to them, they already know how he makes them feel. Just teach them the way good people behave, and teach them good boundaries.
Consider contacting your lawyer to remind the ex that he may not contact you, and that you have no interest in communicating with him. Having this on file is important. If you have a restraining order, then be sure to also communicate his violation of the order to the police and document time, date, and what was said.
There are professional apps that provide what you asked your friend to do, to be the go between patients. One such app is called Talking parents. https://talkingparents.com/
I’m glad you only communicate in writing.
You might also check in your state as to when the kids are old enough to say no to visiting him, I think it’s usually about thirteen,
Lindsay, one of the most striking aspects of this essay is the contrast between the two stories being told. One is a story of healing, boundaries, and reclaiming a life; the other is a story that seems to require your participation in order to work. Your daughter's observation that you have your "sparkle back" says more than any coffee conversation ever could. I also appreciate how carefully you connect personal experience with established patterns, because it helps readers distinguish between genuine reconciliation and attempts to regain access. Thank you for sharing both your hard-won wisdom and the clarity that comes from trusting the boundaries that helped make healing possible.
I don't need to tell you to not do it because you already know that. However, I do need you to know that I laughed so hard over "irresistible’ men’s fragrance from Bath and Body Works."
Shortly after our divorce, he invited me to dinner. He was being very cordial and I hoped it meant that he was ready to be civil since the divorce was final. I thought we'd have a conversation about co-parenting respectfully. As soon as I arrived at the restaurant, I smelled the cologne and saw that he was wearing his date night shirt and my heart sank. It became clear that he thought I might want to get back together. I politely told him I was very happy being single and I hoped we could learn to work together for the sake of the kids. He said he'd lost his appetite, and left pretty quickly after that. So I guess technically, I've been down this road before...
"Date night shirt " There can be only one. LOL.
So gross. Love watching you shine via social media without that despicable squid. Keep on keeping on.
I was reading this and saying “No! Don’t do it!” I am glad you didn’t and are helping others that may be in this situation.
Gah! I am so, so glad you said no. In fact, I kept repeating “say no” over and over while reading this.
For me it wasn’t a spouse, but a parent who was much like your ex. No contact was what I needed to begin healing as well. I caved when they reached out asking to make amends with me after news that their own parent was dying - I should have known when they expressed they did not wish for me to “be glad that they were dying like they felt about their own parent.”
Yeah.
You do have your sparkle back and I love that for you! May you continue to heal and sparkle.
That's so hard. I'm sorry you went through that. I decided to go no contact with another family member who was physically abusive when I was growing up and I can't believe how controversial that decision has been in my family - even among people who SAW me getting hurt over and over again. I read that survivors of abusive relationships typically lose tolerance for all relationships that have been toxic or abusive, and that really resonated with me. Once I got away from my ex, I discovered I couldn't pretend to be okay with anyone who was mistreating or manipulating me. It's actually very freeing.
Yes! You are doing the right thing. But please be extra careful now!
As someone who has been in your shoes. Do not have coffee. The control will begin all over again. Enjoy the life you have created and don't look back.
I'm glad you're out of that situation, Kathy!
i liked how you explained the pattern without relying on assumptions or buzzwords and the line about your daughter saying your sparkle is back sets up why the coffee request makes sense from his side... he wants access now that you're doing well. Looking at what he gains versus what it could cost you cuts through a lot of the confusion. Ending with a simple “hell no” worked because by that point the answer was obvious.
Thanks. I appreciate you telling your story. A lot of people will benefit from reading your words.
Grey rocking a narcissist like a true queen🙌
Thank goodness you had the gumption to leave and not agree to the coffee.
👏BRAVO!!!!! Give him the proverbial middle finger & walk away. You’re awesome!!
Narcissists feed off of drawing you in. Keep boundaries strong. Praying also for your kids. Having to do this myself with a family member. It is so strange to try to comprehend someone who operates this way. Stay safe.
'Strange' is the right word for it. Just based on my experience and that of other women I know, I'd advise any woman in a similar situation to do everything they can to relentlessly limit or prevent any interaction whatsoever with a narcissistic and/or abusive ex. I would have benefitted if I had figured this out much sooner. They cannot be rehabilitated and there is no 'working together' without the woman suffering in the process. I look back at texts now and see that every 'nice' interaction was quickly followed by a verbal gut punch. It's not worth it.
I also 1) said Oh heck No! several times and 2) laughed about the “men’s fragrance from Bath and Body works.” You are a very intelligent, strong woman living a great life- no reason to give away your hard-earned joy.
Thank you, Alison!
Good decision! You seem so much happier now!
Having been also married to an abuser, I can attest to the fact that the patterns you talk about are classic. I’ve been a psychotherapist for 33+ years, and these behaviors are so terrible to be on the receiving end of (even knowing all I know). The abuser continues to interrupt the life of his victim in any way he is able. (I am not intending to project any gender bias here, simply stating that the majority of abusers are men)
I’d like to add some more idea to the many good thoughts you have spoken about here. I recommend documenting any and all contact attempts he makes toward you. (Especially ones thru the kids or friends) Empower your kids to let Dad know that they don’t want to be his “messenger” and that they’d rather just be with him. If he escalates, you have documentation to take back to court and refuse visitations with him. You never have to speak ill of him to them, they already know how he makes them feel. Just teach them the way good people behave, and teach them good boundaries.
Consider contacting your lawyer to remind the ex that he may not contact you, and that you have no interest in communicating with him. Having this on file is important. If you have a restraining order, then be sure to also communicate his violation of the order to the police and document time, date, and what was said.
There are professional apps that provide what you asked your friend to do, to be the go between patients. One such app is called Talking parents. https://talkingparents.com/
I’m glad you only communicate in writing.
You might also check in your state as to when the kids are old enough to say no to visiting him, I think it’s usually about thirteen,
Lindsay, one of the most striking aspects of this essay is the contrast between the two stories being told. One is a story of healing, boundaries, and reclaiming a life; the other is a story that seems to require your participation in order to work. Your daughter's observation that you have your "sparkle back" says more than any coffee conversation ever could. I also appreciate how carefully you connect personal experience with established patterns, because it helps readers distinguish between genuine reconciliation and attempts to regain access. Thank you for sharing both your hard-won wisdom and the clarity that comes from trusting the boundaries that helped make healing possible.
You gave me some valuable information + insights about an ended, decades-old friendship. Thank you.